Dorival Júnior was appointed Brazil coach in January after 22 years in management, taking in clubs such as Cruzeiro, Santos, São Paulo, Palmeiras and Flamengo. The 61-year-old’s first game in charge will be against England at Wembley on Saturday. Here he speaks exclusively to the Guardian about his hopes for the job, why the Seleção need to reconnect with the fans and the racist abuse suffered by Vinícius Júnior.
Dorival, first of all, tell us what it feels like to be the Brazil coach. Well, it’s hard for me to describe it. I’m very confident going into this job. I am confident because I’ve worked very hard to get to a place like this. I am not going to lie and I am not going to hide this feeling. I’ve always had great loyalty to my clubs and my teammates but I’ve also tried to prepare myself so that one day I might get a chance with the national team.
I am living this moment as if it were a mixture of all the teams I’ve worked with and who suddenly gave me the chance to be here. I feel it especially because I have always been a supporter. I started supporting Ferroviária de Araraquara from the time I was six or seven, and since I started playing I always wanted a job in professional football. I studied PE, still not knowing if I was going to make it as a professional footballer. Then I had a career as a player for over 18 years so I’ve practically lived in a dressing room since I was six or seven.
Why is the national team so special for you and for all Brazilians? For me, it is because I’ve always felt like a supporter of the national team. I’d stop what I was doing to watch the call-ups, I’d stop to watch the interviews of former teammates today, people who have passed through here for whom I have enormous respect, right? I think that goes back to [Mário] Zagallo, [Carlos Alberto] Parreira, Dunga, [Émerson] Leão, Vanderlei [Luxemburgo], Tite ... I am forgetting many names here but all of them who were part of this, of being in charge of a national team. I think it’s the pinnacle of a coach’s career.
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Photograph: Victoria Jones/PA
At the moment, though, it feels as if the fans and our national team are far apart from each other. I would like that gap to get smaller, for us to be much closer, for the fans to come back. And for that to happen, we have to instigate it. That would be the federation, the coaching staff and the players who are here working together to bring our fans closer to us. We need them to get back to having that passion, that feeling of watching your team and being represented by the players on the pitch.
Why do you think we are in this position? Sometimes it’s very easy to throw stones, to point fingers. Instead I’d like it to be the other way round, for us all to realise that it’s not a good time [for the Seleção] but that we can use the help of the people to start finding solutions. I want the people to make suggestions for how we can try to solve the problems so that we once again can create a team that gives the fans confidence but, above all, so that fans can see themselves in this team and to be proud to wear the shirt again. We need to switch the lights on, not off, as has happened in recent years.
Brazil have lost three of the first six World Cup qualifiers. Is the disconnect between fans and the team also because of the results? I don’t think results alone would distance us from something we really like. I think it’s a series of factors that have happened over the years. Like it or not, football’s development means that our best players have all been out of Brazil for a long time. To give you an idea, there are now around 1,500 to 1,600 Brazilian players outside the country and this has been going on for more than 10 years.
That way you lose the identity as well as a bit of that closeness. You realise that a few players are very distant. That is not their fault but regardless of the results for the national team they won’t be back in the country the following week. Maybe they don’t understand what’s going on in our country because when they leave they’ll immediately have to turn their attention to their clubs abroad. So I think that all of this has led to a great deal of mistrust on everyone’s part. We also have understand the situation and I’m sure that they’ve always tried to do their best. Maybe something got in the way that we need to bring back. I think it’s something we can reverse. We have the qualities to give to our supporters more confidence and I hope each of them will be represented by the players who are on the pitch.
But I have a lot of faith in the development of our work. I know this start won’t be easy and we won’t find a magic wand. Everything has to happen in a natural way. But we’ve prepared a lot for this moment and I’m going to dedicate myself to ensure that the Seleção can win back all the credit it possibly can in the eyes of the fans.
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Your first match is against England at Wembley. Are they, with players such as Harry Kane, Jude Bellingham, Phil Foden and Declan Rice, the strongest team in the world today? England are a team of the highest calibre and they are showing that every step of the way at the moment. It is a team that is still developing but it is doing so at a very accelerated pace. It is being done by someone, Mr Southgate, who has, I believe, more than 90 games in charge of the team.
He already has a very clear understanding of the potential of his squad and he has got players who are playing in one of the most competitive leagues in the world. In addition these players are moving away from what was known as the traditional way of England teams to play for years and years. These days they have much more possession, a lot more transitions and breakthrough moves.
Today it seems that the biggest discussion in Brazil is that the national team no longer have any stars. How do you see the current Seleção? Feared and respected or not? It’s much more respected outside our country than it is here, I can tell you that. People have no idea how much Brazilian football is talked about outside our country. And I didn’t realise that just by getting this job now. No, I’ve been doing it since 2012. Every year I visited one club or another. I had the chance to talk to players, managers and coaches abroad who always showed great respect and admiration for Brazilian football. This doesn’t happen back home. Unfortunately, that’s the way it is in our country. Say someone wins the world surfing championship. He or she will never be recognised as the best. They need to win a second championship. And once they’ve won the second, they need to win a third championship. And so it is in any kind of sport here.
We still have great players. Maybe not at the level we’ve had at other times. But we still have good players. We have a player who stands out on the world stage. Neymar is still going strong and, God willing, he’ll recover from his injury. And he could be a difference-maker for all of us.
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One of your players, Vinícius Júnior, has been suffering a wave of racist abuse in Europe. How does that make you feel? Sadly it is happening all over the world. Ignorance still remains. The authorities must take more severe action. This situation with Vinícius, in particular, has already crossed the line. The Spanish people in general are a very friendly, respectful and above all peaceful people and they should not have their image tarnished by a handful of malicious people. It should be possible to track down the people [who do the racist chanting] if the police put their mind to it. It is just like in our country, where many, many people suffer every day. But they are silenced by the inefficiency and ineffectiveness of the authorities.
Do you think this situation further distances the Seleção and the fans? Yes, it distances the fans who can no longer bear to see this kind of abuse from a minority of people. This is no longer acceptable in society. People have to be respected in every way and in every sense.
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If it happens to Vinícius again, like it did for the Seleção’s last game in Europe, can you make a stronger stance? We will need to analyse and balance all of the information in such moments but we need to be prepared to take drastic action if it happens again. Vinícius is still a boy. He is still finishing his education and he can’t be treated like this by this minority.
You have the Copa América this summer, are you thinking of a more experienced team for that? Thiago Silva has said he wants to return to the national team. Is there hope for him? All the names are on our radar. It will depend on the form of the player, you can be sure of that. It doesn’t matter if it is a youngster who’s just starting out or a great player with a fantastic record in the national team like Thiago. To them I say: “Don’t lose hope and, if you still have any expectations, keep working hard.”
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You have a difficult enough job to select your first starting XI for the England game but I am going to ask you something even tougher: what would be your all-time Brazil team? That’s very difficult. Oh well ... I’m going to work on the teams that won the World Cup, with the exception of one or two names. My goalkeeper is Leão. I have doubts between him and [Cláudio] Taffarel, but as Taffarel is one of my committee, he’ll understand me. Cafu, Aldair, [Hilderaldo] Bellini and Roberto Carlos; Dunga, because of his history and everything he has represented for the Seleção, he really deserves to be there. Zico and Rivellino. In attack, Ronaldinho Gaúcho, Ronaldo and Romário. I left out Pelé because he’s not human, he’s hors concours.
Finally, on Saturday you will step on to the Wembley pitch for your first game as Brazil coach. How will that be for you? It’s going to be the most exciting day of my life, you can be sure of that. Winning a championship at the Morumbi Stadium or at the Maracanã is priceless, but to make my debut for the Brazilian national team at Wembley is something unique. What more could I want from life? God has been more than perfect for me. He has a lot of special things in store for me. But I also hope that this day will be surpassed in July 2026, by winning the World Cup. You can write that down, you can keep it. The start won’t be easy. I won’t hide it from you. But the end will be good. You can be sure of that.
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